It is a natural thing to say that when we talk about the Church, we talk about the clergy, the religious, and the laity, altogether because we are all part of the One Body of Christ and we share the same mission of proclaiming the Good News and living out the Gospel.
Bro. George Campos passionately tells us how the Couples for Christ can contribute to overcoming the challenges that our Church face today. In this 2-part episode, the exchange of stories did not just dwell on our host and guest speaker. It also includes statements from our Church leaders, some studies done for the Catholic Church, wrapped up in the views of the head of our Church Relations Office Head of Couples for Christ. Watch until the end and be more inspired in the mission that we do together with the Church.
The transcript is available below the videos.
Transcript
ROBERT LABAYEN
Hi, brothers and sisters. Welcome to the fourth episode of What Ails You? This is our online series in celebration of our 41st anniversary, whose theme is Heal the World for Christ.
I’m your host, Robert Labayen, journeying with you on this path to healing. Last episode, we had with us our brother Nonoy Dalman, and he shared some really nice advice on how husband and wife can overcome the problems in their marriage, as well as enhance the relationship between husband, wife, and parents and children. Because at the end of the day, family is what really matters to us. It’s what is worth fighting for and struggling for.
In this episode, we will be talking about what ails the Church, or the problems that our Church faces today.
What ails the Church, specifically our Catholic Church? To share with us on the topic “What ails the Church?”, we have with us our brother and a member of the CFC International Council, and he also serves as the head of our Church Relations Office. Brothers and sisters, let us welcome our brother George Campos.
Hi, Brother George, thank you for being with us. You look great, as always. And how have you been?
GEORGE CAMPOS
Thank you very much, Brother Robert, for having me here. You know, I feel great, and it’s great to see you. You know, this is a very difficult subject matter, for we are going to discuss what is not only in our minds, but in our hearts as well.
We are part of the Church. We all love it. Thus, we give our time, our talent, and our treasure, because it’s very dear to our hearts. So, it’s very difficult to hang your dirty laundry, or our dirty laundry, for everyone to see. Thus, you know what I’ve done? I have to consult some bishops, some priests, and also some lay leaders for me to come up with a better understanding and perspective in discussing what ails our Church.
ROBERT
Okay. Thank you, Brother. Thank you for that. Now, when we ask the question, what ails the Church? To be honest, it seems to me like a very broad topic. I don’t even know where to begin. So, I’m glad you’re here. And when we ask, what ails the Church, what part of the Church are we talking about exactly?
GEORGE
It’s true, Brother Robert. It’s a very, very broad topic from A to Z, from heaven to earth. But you know, it’s a natural thing to say that when we talk about the Catholic Church, we talk about the clergy. These are the priests, the bishops, and also the religious, we have the nuns. And, of course, we, the laity, and all together discussed as one. Because we are all part of one body of Christ, and we share the same mission, proclaiming the good news and living out the Gospel.
You know, there are a lot of ailments, a lot of problems, a lot of shortcomings, and challenges being encountered by the Catholic Church. But, you know, because it’s broad, let us discuss some of them and how we in Couples for Christ can be of help.
First, let us talk about what is the clergy and the religious. The first one is clericalism.
ROBERT
So hard to pronounce.
GEORGE
It’s a very big word. It’s a very big word. I have to research what clericalism means. The first time that I heard this, I heard this loud and clear during the 2014 Extraordinary Synod of Bishops in Vatican. My wife and I were there as participants, as auditors during that synod.
And during the intervention of Archbishop Soc Villegas, who was then the president of CBCP, he mentioned this as one of the ailments of the Church. And he mentioned this in front of the Pope, in front of the many cardinals and leaders of the Church. He said, clericalism is one of the ailments of the Church, a very bold statement coming from the Archbishop.
And you know what had happened, Brother Robert? The cardinals and the other Church leaders, after the intervention of Archbishop Soc Villegas, they clapped their hands! They clapped their hands and affirmed what Archbishop Villegas said.
So what is clericalism? So I have to research this from the Webster Dictionary. Clericalism, it said, is a disordered attitude toward and by the clergy. Toward and by the clergy, there is excessive deference and assumption of moral superiority. As Pope Francis simply explained in one of his homilies, he said, clerics feel they are superior. They are far from the people.
ROBERT
Okay, so how does and why does clericalism happen?
GEORGE
So let me explain this from a clerical point of view. Well, it’s quite obvious, Brother Robert. Even the clergy and the leaders themselves are aware of this.
You know, I have to consult Bishop Misiona. How does clericalism happen? And Bishop Mesiona said, “when clergy puts too much attention on self-entitlement, which roots from spoiling—spoiling the priest over the years—and when they lose sight of their calling to serve and not to be served.”
Another instance where clericalism happens is according to Bishop Ambo David of Caloocan. He said, “some clerics have become elites or with high regards on themselves, with the mindset of— Look at this mindset. Because of —the receiving, ongoing formation, high expectations because of their high degrees in education, high expectations because they are part of an established church or established parish, wherein they can enjoy a comfortable life.
ROBERT
We’re talking about self-importance?
GEORGE
Yes, that’s right. They’re self-important and they feel they are far more superior than anyone else. So it is important, Brother Robert, to point out that the laity places the priest, even us the laity, places the priest on a pedestal. Even if the clerics, even if the religious do not have this strong tendency—we are forcing them, we are putting them on a pedestal. In the local parlance, nilalagay natin sila sa pedestal at sinasamba (we put them on pedestals and worship them).
ROBERT
So we have a part in making that happen. It’s our attitude.
GEORGE
Yes. That’s right, that’s right, Brother Robert.
So it’s not just them, but us as well. But of course for them—some of them—they accept it, and they like it as well.
ROBERT
You know, I think many of our brothers and sisters here who have served in the church will have the experience of having to deal with a parish priest who is not easy to deal with, tough to deal with. I don’t have the exact word, but we say they are masungit (ill-tempered).
They like to have a say in everything, down to the minutest detail. They want to have the last say. And therefore, many of our people in the church, those officers of the parish and the lay servers, they cannot play their role well because the parish priest seems to micromanage them.
GEORGE
That is true, Brother Robert. Now we go to the latest point of view.
There can be a lot of reasons or factors why, as Bishop Ambo David said, a priest could be like that. But most of the time, it’s the mindset that the priest, like I said, the priest knows best. That he is the decision maker and is responsible, is responsible for everything that happens in the parish. He gets the credit when things go well, and of course also takes the responsibility of the consequences when things do not go as planned.
A classic example, as you have pointed, in the parish pastoral council. The directions have been already planned, discussed, and decided upon. The laity who would implement, as part of the head of a committee, the laity who is going to implement this, come up with their own strategies on how to implement this, is not given the opportunity to do so.
It is still the priest who would do everything and lets the laity just work on it. He micromanages, because he trusts himself so much. He does not trust that the laity would do it.
ROBERT
Is it that normal for the laity to argue or debate with the priest?
GEORGE
You know, that is abnormal. Why? Because we put the priest on a higher level. They know everything. And we just say, yes, we follow. Though the laity, they are also well-educated, they are well-informed, they are well-experienced, thus they are not even able to share their talents, their expertise on how to run even the committee that has been given to them. You just rely on what the priest would say.
You know, Bishop Ambo further says that it is easier to go back to the traditional parochialistic way of thinking. Since our parishes are old—how many years now? 500 years—but tired institutions. And how they became like this is also a historical process. You know, they were not like this before. Parishes were like BECs: basic ecclesial communities. They were empowered communities. But through time, they become clericalist.
The priest and the religious have greater responsibilities to attend to the people. In some large communities, some lay are already being marginalized due to the lack of manpower, due to lack of priests and religious—since the clergy and the religious can only handle so much in a community. They could not handle everything, they could only handle what they can reach. So the people in the margins, what they call the laylayan (peripheries) are very vulnerable to the invitations of those other sects.
That’s why. So which we, the laity, can provide assistance and guidance to the Catholic Church as well to those marginalized people. So there is a need for the people to be guarded and guided.
That’s why Bishop Ambo has instituted the “mission stations”, and suggested that even some dioceses to adopt this, so that those in the marginalized areas could be guided and guarded as well. But you know, it’s easier said than done. There are a lot of considerations to sustain the need of those who are invited to serve in the mission stations, and of course the need of those parishioners in the marginalized.
Yes, there’s a lot of work. But there may be a bit of difficulty in pushing it, but we in Couples for Christ are not daunted by the challenge that is being given to us.
You know, Brother Robert, Couples for Christ is poised and looking into serving more mission stations. Yes, to serve in more mission stations, to serve those in the marginalized areas. There’ll be a training of more missionary or lay missionary chaplains who would be sent and appointed to man that mission stations.
We now have the DM Mission Station and the Santa Quiteria Mission Station.
ROBERT
I’m sure there’s more to come. We’re just starting.
GEORGE
Yes, Brother Robert, more to come.
ROBERT
Good, good.
GEORGE
Watch out for it. So what’s the next ailment? The next is indifference.
We become indifferent when we forget our need to love God above all things and to put God’s will above our own will. You know, the Catechism of the Catholic Church identifies indifference as a sin against God’s love because it neglects or refuses to reflect on divine charity. That is Catechism 2093.
For the priestly vocation, as Bishop Mesiona of Palawan said, it is important to instill at early formation—seminary stage— that the seminarians, the priests-to-be, that they have to learn to go out of their comfort zone. That is, to walk with God’s people and build relationships that would help encourage them to be present and/or go back to the church. And of course, the second one is to live out the call to charity and follow God’s commandment to love and tend to his people.
ROBERT
So as of now, are the parishes also challenged in terms of engaging the people outside the church, going to the peripheries, the type that they roll up their sleeves and work with the people?
GEORGE
Very good question, Brother Robert. I believe there is. I believe there is.
You know as Bishop Ambo said, some parishes being traditionalist, do not want to go out of their comfort zones. Especially with the changes needed, do not go out of their way. They do missions outside of the parishes once in a while, in the form of outreach. Yes, they roll the sleeves, but there’s an outreach.
You know, Brother Robert, there’s a difference between outreach and being sent to a certain mission area for a few days, months or weeks, probably. In an outreach, they will not be able to relate that much to the people. There’s not much interaction. Everything will be superficial without the deep involvement in the situation of the area.
ROBERT
It’s just like a project, a short-term project that’s an outreach.
GEORGE
Yes, that’s right. You do not get to know what the problems or even develop a relationship with the people. You’re just superficial. You get to see them. You give them things, and after that, you go out. That’s it.
You know, there must be a sense of responsibility in embracing the mission of the church. That is to be with the people and for the people, to know them personally. Probably even not just their name—probably family name, probably even birthdays, anniversaries. Get to know them and their children as well.
And to embrace this mission, we in Couples for Christ should start building good relationships, starting, of course, with the bishop, so that we may be able to offer how we can be of help to the diocese. Then going down to the parishes, and probably to the sub-parishes and mission stations, and to be supportive to their endeavors.
If the clergy, if they see that we are sincere in our initiatives, then there’s a start of a healthy relationship between we, Couples for Christ, and the clergy. And of course, when we are down in the mission areas, we, Couples for Christ, with the people in the areas that we are serving.
ROBERT
Brother George, how important is it for the clergy and the religious to do mission outside the church? Is it mandated or is it optional?
GEORGE
Very good question, Brother Robert. You know, every baptized Catholic—that’s you and me, and everyone who’s watching—you are. We are highly encouraged to be evangelizers, to become missionaries. So everyone, so everyone who is baptized.
As Bishop Ambo David said, when we lack compassion for others, we fail to embrace our calling, that we are part of the body of Christ. When we are numbed to the need of the mission, we numb the body of Christ.
So every one of us must go on mission, everyone. So when we disregard the welfare of others and only focus on what benefits us most, we fail to fulfill our calling as Alter Christus: a part of the body of Christ. Not only the church itself, but the whole people of God: both the clergy, the religious, and the laity.
You know, Brother Robert, what is the opposite of indifference?
ROBERT
Is it love?
GEORGE
Yes, that’s right. The opposite of indifference is love. Just like what Bishop Pabillo said, this must start with the love for God, then the love for the common good, and followed by the love for the country.
ROBERT
Thank you, Brother George, for those thoughts and reminders about what is our church. You mentioned clericalism, indifference. Are there others, other ailments that you can see?
GEORGE
You want some more? Okay.
ROBERT
Hopefully easier to pronounce.
GEORGE
Yes. The third one is disobedience. This is present both in the clergy and the laity, which causes the church to be divided. And I could embed in this topic also the moral issues or scandals, which the clergy and the religious are deeply into, which has deeply scarred the church. You know, as Bishop Mesiona said, it adds to the disappointment of people to hear scandals of the clergy. It is a painful reality that the clergy is facing and addressing to be resolved.
You know, the people are looking up to our clergy and religious and they honor and value their calling. That’s why we put them on a higher pedestal. But due to these scandals, it becomes a worry, as Bishop Ambo said, it becomes a worry that priesthood or religious vocations are not attractive anymore. There is something about the institution itself or the priesthood or even the religious, even the nature of how it is being lived now, that does not attract people at all.
But of course, Brother Robert, we ought to value our clergy. They are called by God to be our leaders, teachers, and ministers of the sacraments for Christian life. Of course, we owe them respect for that.
When we consider the higher calling of priests and the religious they have received from God, we can well imagine the effort, Brother Robert, look at this, the effort being put by the devil to make them fall. This is the part of why it’s especially important to pray for clerics, okay, mindful that their life on earth here is also a spiritual battle.
ROBERT
I can agree with you that with these scandals, there’s less attraction for the youth to enter the priesthood. So how is it affecting the church?
GEORGE
Very definite, Brother Robert, it’s affecting the vocation.
You know, the decline in the number of priests has put a heavy strain or heavy burden on the existing priests. Cardinal Chito Tagle mentioned that the ideal ratio of priests to parishioners is one priest is to 2,000 parishioners. But what is the reality in the Archdiocese of Manila? Can you imagine the ratio, Brother Robert? It is one priest to 20,000 parishioners.
ROBERT
Is it 10 times more than the, what’s the—
GEORGE
Yes, it’s 10 times more. So we can just imagine the work that needs to be accomplished by that priest, okay? By that priest. As Bishop Mesiona said, the time of the priests are already devoted to the sacraments, and they no longer have time for the other priestly roles. They’re fully loaded, Brother Robert.
On another note as well, from the UST research study regarding the Catholic Church, too much involvement with the realities of the world, you’re stretching yourself too far, without deeper reflection on how the church understands certain situations can put men of cloth off rail. Weakening of the spiritual life, the prayer and celebration of the Eucharist can be a good reason why the morality is a problem in the Catholic Church.
ROBERT
That’s true, Brother George. And I know that even those closest to the church, they’re not spared from such challenges. After all, we are all humans, and we have our weaknesses, and sometimes it’s not that easy to resist temptations.
That’s why I would like to remind all our brothers and sisters to continue praying for our clergy, and to continue to value them and respect them, despite our human limitations. And I know that can really help a lot if we pray with them and pray for them.
And now, Brother, let’s talk about the laity. What ails the laity?
GEORGE
Yes, thank you very much, Brother Robert. We have been talking too much about the clergy, but though we have touched a bit of the laity, but let’s look at this, okay? The teaching of the Catholic Church is very beautiful. However, because we lack focused formation and empowerment of the basic catechism to the young and to the people in general, there are challenges that are currently being faced.
First is secularism. Again, another big word.
ROBERT
The second piece for tonight.
GEORGE
According to Charles Taylor, a Canadian philosopher, on his insight about secularization theory, the belief that as modernity and science spread, religious belief will decrease—eventually becoming either rare or extinct. Nada, okay?
This is a preposition of the most so-called new atheists who pit science against religion, reason against faith, okay? This leads to secularism being understood as the absence of belief in God. The mentality of living without the concept of God, that they can do things regardless there is God. Or none.
You know, Brother Robert, people are becoming more spiritual than being religious. They choose to depend on what they can comprehend as the meaning and purpose of their existence, more than practicing and embracing certain beliefs. Secularism.
The next big word, Brother Robert, is Agnosticism
I have asked Bishop Mesiona about this and explained that this is the belief that there is no proof of God and there is no proof that there is no God, okay? So they choose to remain neutral in the aspect of faith. People walk away from the Catholic Church and choose other religions because we lack, we, the Catholic Church, we lack reinforcement of the foundation in the Catechism of the Church.
The people right now prefer an atmosphere that could attract them and provide them with an avenue for freedom and practice the right to choose. Since in their perspective, practicing a certain faith could limit their opportunity to become who they thought they could be.
ROBERT
Yeah, I can agree with you, Brother. In the world today and with so many things going on, sometimes it’s easier to believe in nothing than to believe in something. That sounds so profound. (George laughs)
What I’m trying to say is that some people do not have enough drive to, or faith to discover their own faith and they choose the easier path of not believing because it’s easier.
GEORGE
It’s true.
ROBERT
So with everything that we have talked about brother—so overwhelming—what do you think are the things that we can do, especially as members of CFC?
GEORGE
The good news, Brother Robert, okay, the good news is that Couples for Christ will not be a bystander watching from the sidelines on what is transpiring in front, the back, or around it, okay?
You know, Couples for Christ, every leader and every member will be and must become an active player? Because Couples for Christ, being one with the Catholic Church, we aim to respond to the call of bringing the people of God back to the church. This way, this way, we in Couples for Christ can aid in healing and restoring its dignity through living out the teachings, being witnesses, brothers, of the beauty of the Catholic Church.
We desire to strengthen our relationship within it by wholeheartedly embracing the privilege given to us to take part in the restoration of the church by being vessels of truth and healing to the people. The CFC core values of being pro-God, pro-family, pro-life, and pro-poor have been shared through the pastoral formation, being devotedly and committedly given to each and every member. It plays a significant role to the growth of the community members to remain proactive, dynamic, and relevant.
ROBERT
Yeah, can you explain in what way the formation of Couples for Christ helps in overcoming the ailments of the church?
GEORGE
Beautiful question, okay? You know, formation leads to evangelization. Formation leads to evangelization. We are community evangelizers, and we are witnesses of God’s faithfulness in ways that are different from one another. Yours is different from mine.
We are witnesses, but we are witnesses to the works of the Holy Spirit within us, within our families, and within our community. And these works, brother, are what we are called to magnify all throughout the world—in the name of love, compassion, and mercy. So as we are being continuously being formed in the work of the community and in the service of others, we become reflection of God’s beacon of light and hope to those who are in need.
Other people are becoming witnesses as well of God’s faithfulness through our stories of trials and victories. Those who have seen the greatness of God in our journey are being transformed in one way or another, for we are called to listen, to share, and walk with them. And there is where evangelization begins.
The second, okay, formation leads to vocation. We in the laity can help increase the vocation by raising our children properly, and inspiringly lead them towards that kind of love: the love for God. We believe that vocation begins in every Christian family.
We are a community of discerners. Through the years we have been asking the grace to be led and guided by the Holy Spirit in all things that we do. Our decisions are always grounded on God’s truth, and we honor the sanctity of our calling: that we are being called to walk a specific path towards holiness. Some younger members of the community, especially those in the Family Ministries, have found their calling to the holy order and religious vocations.
I know there are about more than 50 already, and just recently for this year, I think more than 10 have been called to become priests in various orders. And some were called to the same path in their later life.
CFC will truly become a seedbed of vocation. You know, through the years, the community has been an avenue of holistic formation, wherein the leaders and the members are being formed to become dedicated and committed proclaimers of the good news.
ROBERT
Yeah, I heard. I know that some of our members have joined the religious orders or they joined the clergy, coming from Singles for Christ.
GEORGE
Youth for Christ.
ROBERT
Youth for Christ. We even have a member who used to be married, and when he became a widower, he became a priest.
GEORGE
Yes, Father Lambert Ramos. Yes, that’s right, Brother, yes. And we thank God, Robert—we thank God for allowing the CFC community to be part of their journey vocation and finding their life’s mission. And of course, our life’s mission as well, which leads us to the last point.
Formation leads to mission. We are a community of missionaries. Rightly, as Pope Francis said, missionary disciples. We have been formed through the many years of teachings and now are called to go on mission, just like you and me and everyone else. Apart from the fact that leaders and members are all missionaries in their own special way, our formation has led us to a deeper knowledge and appreciation of our mission.
We tend to feel weak when we do not go on mission, Brother Robert, isn’t it? So we have those who have been part of the community through the younger ministries, who have undergone different stages of pastoral formation and found meaning and purpose in embracing the mission. These people responded to a call to go out into the world to reach to the peripheries and spread the gospel. They are our missionaries, our full-time missionaries who dedicated themselves to live a life of above and beyond reproach to serve as couple missionaries or even as young lay missionaries.
ROBERT
They found a great sense of purpose in life, yeah.
GEORGE
And they even sacrificed their careers, even secular life, for this higher calling.
So in the end, Brother Robert and brothers and sisters, healing. Healing in Latin word is salus, and it means salvation, a sense of being and a sense of home, of belongingness, and being complete. But sometimes we give only of half, yes, one half, of what we ought to give and to be committed to it, just as how God is the word himself, for he is a God of one word. Our word bears our integrity, and we have to live through it, to live out our path as God’s people.
As Bishop Ambo said, spiritual diseases are sins caused by lack of integration, which means the Holy Spirit is not at work. Another spirit is working in us, which causes us to be ill.
But of course, looking at the positive side, the more that the church is going through adversity—adversities as Bishop Ambo said—the more adversities we are facing, the more that the church will rise with saints, prophets, and martyrs that will inspire more people to seek their vocation. As you could see from the Bible and history of the church, during times of persecution are times that revive vocation. Because it is the love for vocation and love for God that attract and empower us to believe and to follow.
We can contribute to the healing of our church as a community. For decades, it has been our calling to respond to the needs of the people of God. As we respond by asking the grace of the Holy Spirit to use us, to form us, and to equip us, guided and inspired by the Holy Spirit, we form individuals, married couples, and families as a whole. And they are now vessels and witnesses of God’s love, which we are meant to spread all over the world.
ROBERT
Wow, thank you, thank you. Wonderful words and very valuable insights, Brother George. Thank you for all the sharing.
You know, you remind us, all of us, that we should have a better understanding of what our church is going through, and that as members of the church, we’re not just passive players, we’re not spectators. We have a role to play in helping the church overcome all its challenges. And so, especially us, members of Couples for Christ. So thank you, Brother George, for that.
And it’s a good time to pray for the church. So would you like to lead us?
GEORGE
Yes, thank you very much, Brother Robert. So let us put ourselves in the presence of the Lord. In the name of the Father, of the Son, Holy Spirit. Amen.
Lord, we pray for the healing of our church by healing us from the things that led us astray from your purpose. Heal our clergy and religious brothers and sisters, that they may continue to faithfully tend to your people and embrace the mission you have entrusted. We, the laity, pray that we may continue to honor you by living out your teachings and submitting to the authority of your church.
We pray as well for the Couples for Christ community that we may continue to strengthen our relationship with the church and seek your grace to be able to offer ourselves in the service of your people. Amen. In the name of the Father, of the Son, Holy Spirit. Amen.
ROBERT
Thank you again, Brother George.
GEORGE
It’s an honor, Brother Robert.
ROBERT
And brothers and sisters, thank you for being with us in this episode of “What Ails You?”. I’m sure that you learned a lot and there was so much that you were reminded of. And if this episode was personal to you, and if you think that this episode is meaningful to some other people that you know, please feel free to share because when we share, we can reach even more people. And if you want to be notified of the next episodes, just press subscribe and the notification bell.
May we never forget that through, in, and with Christ, there is healing. I am Robert Labayen. I am your host, and see you the next episode.
God bless you and your family.